Ringobot log - RingoJS IRC channel: #ringojs on irc.freenode.net
2010-08-03:
[8:02] <hannesw> good morning[8:02] <hannesw> irc meeting in the house
[8:02] <oberhamsi> morning
[8:03] <hannesw> totally forgot (again) :)
[8:05] <hannesw> ping robertgg zumbrunn earl waddler irc meeting starting soon
[8:05] <hannesw> gotta get coffee first :)
[8:05] * zumbrunn goes and gets a cup of coffee as well
[8:11] <hannesw> ok, here's the agenda
[8:11] <hannesw> * Website improvements (based on usage data)
[8:11] <hannesw> * 0.6 release
[8:11] <hannesw> (and anything else that may come to our minds)
[8:11] <hannesw> regarding website improvements:
[8:12] <hannesw> there's this great great flow chart that is part of oberhamsi's stats app
[8:12] <oberhamsi> ah you mean this one "clickgraph": http://stats.nekapuzer.at/static/clickgraphs/ringojs_201006.png
[8:13] <oberhamsi> what i find disturbing is that "no one" seems to click through to the api :|
[8:14] <hannesw> hm, noone?
[8:15] <oberhamsi> less then 30 from the 400+ that clicked on api/master
[8:15] <zumbrunn> I don't think it's the api
[8:15] <zumbrunn> it's the top tabs
[8:15] <hannesw> well, enough people cget to api/master obviously
[8:15] <zumbrunn> demo doesn't get that much more
[8:15] <hannesw> and i think from there it spreads so much that arrows get too thin
[8:16] <hannesw> well we can rethink/redesign the top tabs
[8:16] <oberhamsi> when the click on api rarely does anyone click further on any of the modules
[8:16] <hannesw> infact i think we do need a refresh
[8:16] <zumbrunn> ah, wiki/code is pretty high
[8:16] <hannesw> oberhamsi: but there are ~50 modules, don't you think it just spreads among these?
[8:17] <hannesw> well obviously the most important page is getting_started (after the front page, that is)
[8:17] <zumbrunn> also, people might be using their local api docs
[8:17] <oberhamsi> okay makes sense.. spreading & local apis
[8:17] <hannesw> hi robi42!
[8:20] <robi42> hi :)
[8:24] <oberhamsi> what do we want to change... whats the goal?
[8:26] <zumbrunn> me thinks we currently have three spots where one needs to look for the "right link" on the first page
[8:26] <zumbrunn> 1) the block of links in the page content
[8:27] <zumbrunn> 2) the top tabs
[8:27] <zumbrunn> 3) the nav on the right
[8:27] <zumbrunn> ont it is not clear what kind of info is where
[8:27] <zumbrunn> *and* it...
[8:28] <zumbrunn> the most important sections deserve a tab, of course
[8:28] <zumbrunn> but maybe they should be repeated in the nav on the right side
[8:29] <hannesw> zumbrunn right
[8:29] <zumbrunn> and more of what is in the block of links in the content page should probable be included in the right side nav as well
[8:30] <zumbrunn> that's what I've been thinking, anyway
[8:30] <hannesw> well i'm not sure about repeating the tabs on the right side
[8:30] <hannesw> but they should be more prominent/visible
[8:30] <hannesw> yes, the right side bar on the wiki is lacking a few links
[8:30] <hannesw> I'd also like to redo the content of the front page
[8:30] <zumbrunn> the wiki one *is* repeated, it just has a different name
[8:31] <zumbrunn> (Home)
[8:31] <hannesw> yes, but that's not a problem, or is it?
[8:31] <zumbrunn> well, it may add to the confusion as well
[8:32] <oberhamsi> Maybe rename? Wiki -> Home.
[8:32] <zumbrunn> yes
[8:32] <zumbrunn> (maybe)
[8:32] <hannesw> ok
[8:32] <zumbrunn> that's kind of boring, though
[8:33] <hannesw> zumbrunn any concrete proposals on how to improve?
[8:33] <zumbrunn> at the moment, not beyond what I said above
[8:33] <zumbrunn> need to think about it some more
[8:34] <hannesw> ok
[8:34] <hannesw> I'll think about how to improve the content of the front page
[8:34] <hannesw> and how to improve flow through the getting_started page
[8:35] <hannesw> i think having the getting_started as highly visible first target is great
[8:35] <hannesw> but from there, it kind of goes nowhere
[8:35] <hannesw> oberhamsi let's get your tutorial ready for mass consumption
[8:35] <hannesw> i have a praktikant here who'll be looking at it soon
[8:35] <oberhamsi> yes, people find it even though it's no longer linked hehe (well wiki/list)
[8:36] <oberhamsi> okay cool, feedback!
[8:36] <hannesw> it should be linked, shouldn't it?
[8:36] <oberhamsi> after 0.6, it doesn't work with 0.5
[8:37] <hannesw> a _lot_ of things aren't working with 0.5 anymore
[8:37] <hannesw> which brings us to our next issue
[8:37] <hannesw> 0.6 release :)
[8:39] <hannesw> well one thing we need to do for 0.6 is merging oberhamsi jsdoc
[8:40] <hannesw> the other thing I'd kind of like to do is rewrite skin (at least to be all js)
[8:40] <hannesw> but not sure about that
[8:40] <robi42> hooray for static docs generator, thanks oberhamsi
[8:40] <oberhamsi> okay but do we need that for 0.6? we can do next version quicker..
[8:40] <hannesw> +1
[8:40] <hannesw> oberhamsi right
[8:41] <hannesw> so lets just do jsdoc merge and release?
[8:41] <oberhamsi> good with me
[8:41] <robi42> +1
[8:41] <hannesw> ok
[8:44] <hannesw> oberhamsi are you still planning to move that json-formatting code from jsdoc app to ringo/jsdoc module?
[8:44] <hannesw> or have you done that already?
[8:45] <oberhamsi> i'd rather do that with next release..
[8:45] <hannesw> would it be hard to do?
[8:45] <hannesw> maybe it doesn't even belong in ringo/jsdoc, i have no idea
[8:46] <hannesw> i just heard json formatting and thought it would, but looking at it now, it looks like it's more part of the app...
[8:46] <oberhamsi> probably not hard. better docs and maybe rename some fns
[8:46] <hannesw> talking about this: http://github.com/oberhamsi/ringojs/blob/jsdoc-revamp/apps/jsdoc/jsdocserializer.js
[8:46] <oberhamsi> i know ;)
[8:46] <hannesw> ok, let's keep it for now
[8:46] <hannesw> that link was for the others ;)
[8:47] <hannesw> should i merge it?
[8:47] <oberhamsi> okay, lets see how that works out.. we can still move it. i'm just afraid it's still a moving target, so easier to change if its app and not in ringo/
[8:47] <hannesw> right
[8:47] <oberhamsi> yes we can merge. but: i'm not sure how ringojs.org/api would work then.
[8:48] <oberhamsi> from what i see, easiest would be: jsdoc app serves master, other versions are static...
[8:49] <hannesw> ok
[8:49] <hannesw> i'll have a look
[8:49] <oberhamsi> okay thx, i'll be here for questions
[8:50] <hannesw> perfect
[8:50] * oberhamsi afk
[9:23] <waddler> o hi, meeting is on tuesday nowadays?
[9:24] <hannesw> waddler yes
[9:24] <hannesw> for today it's too late though :)
[9:25] <hannesw> but we can still talk :)
[9:25] <waddler> ok, been a bit absent for couple of months, busy at work and having holidays :)
[9:25] <hannesw> that's great. me too, actually :)
[9:26] <hannesw> one thing i forgot to bring up today is removing the import() function
[9:26] <hannesw> (not include())
[9:27] <earl> fwiw, i'm fine w/ removing import()
[9:27] <hannesw> earl thx, was just going to ask you about it :)
[9:28] <hannesw> any other opinions?
[9:29] <earl> if there ever comes a comprehensive top-level (commonjs) stdlib into existence, i'd probably like to reintroduce it, though
[9:29] <earl> but that's just for the records; nothing impacting the immediate decision
[9:30] <zumbrunn> +1 for dropping import()
[11:10] <earl> pushed another ringo/utils-related fix for ringowiki
[11:10] <earl> and adapted ringobot to ringo/utils as well
[11:11] <earl> converting ringobot, i only used destructuring requires as a test
[11:12] <earl> this allows me to avoid those ugly `var DATE` and `var ARRAY` things
[11:13] <earl> for comparison, i also switched ringowiki to use only destructuring requires for ringo/utils/* stuff: http://github.com/earl/ringowiki/commit/2f8c8ff
[11:14] <earl> i'm still undecided if i actually prefer it over the uppercased module imports; will have to think about and use it a bit more
[11:42] <hannesw> earl: great!
[11:42] <hannesw> I'm also undecided on what I prefer
[11:42] <hannesw> actually i find the all-caps thing not too disturbing anymore
[11:44] <earl> my fear is that the all-caps imports will become the standard even for non-utils modules
[11:45] <earl> i.e. what the narwhal guys already do
[11:45] <ringostarr> 0e4a0a8 Hannes Walln?fer: Significantly speed up webapps by requiring middleware and helpers statically in config.js
[11:45] <earl> and that's an uglyness i'd personally like to avoid at all cost :)
[11:47] <earl> and even though there is a consistent rule to what we do now, this rule will most likely not be obvious to newcomers to the codebase
[11:48] <earl> but well, we'll see how things go :)
[11:55] <ringostarr> 9a321f2 Hannes Walln?fer: Go one step further in inlining action functions
[11:57] <ringostarr> aa12033 Hannes Walln?fer: Remove import() function
[11:57] <hannesw> ok, i did it :)
[13:26] <xchl> hello all! wasn't there some discussion re: osx, jline and backspace brokenness recently?
[13:26] <xchl> hannesw?
[13:27] <xchl> fwiw, backspace doesn't seem to work any more. I recently updated to snow leopard, and maybe that's related ...
[14:04] <zumbrunn> xchl: backspace works fine for me on snow leopard
[14:06] <xchl> thanks, zumbrunn. I just found out that after disabling the "delete sends ctrl-h" option in the terminal prefs, both the delete and backspace keys behave as backspace ...
[14:07] <zumbrunn> I'm doing it on the small keyboard
[14:07] <zumbrunn> so. backspace is fn-del here
[14:07] <zumbrunn> maybe that has something to do with it as well
[14:08] <zumbrunn> but yeah, I have Delete sends Ctrl-H disabled as well
[14:08] <zumbrunn> must be de default
[14:08] <zumbrunn> I don't remember ever touching that
[14:09] <xchl> yeah. we probably need to do an exhaustive table: keyboard variant (.de, .us .../small, large), ctrl-h setting, input locale, terminal declaration (xterm[-color] ...) ...
[14:09] <xchl> I imported the terminal settings from my previous 10.5 installation, so I have no idea what the default is
[14:10] <xchl> does forward delete work for you?
[14:10] <zumbrunn> now I'm confused which is which ;-)
[14:10] <zumbrunn> they both work for me
[14:10] <xchl> argh
[14:10] <xchl> yeah, for me too!
[14:11] <xchl> ok, so that setting probably was the culprit
[14:12] <xchl> kinda strange that I never had problems w/ backspace/delete before (using the same settings on 10.5)
[14:15] <hannesw> xchl thanks for clearing this issue!
[14:16] <xchl> we probably should mr nutter know as well ;-)
[14:21] <hannesw> yes, i'll do so since i'm on the list.
[14:35] <xchl> great, hannes!
[14:42] <xchl> just removed `import` from wraps-tagsoup
[15:29] <hannesw> zumbrunn: with that option in termal deselected, normal delete (outside of ringo) does still work?
[15:30] <zumbrunn> I think it is deselected by default (and in my settings)
[15:30] <zumbrunn> so, the real question is, do I have the problem if I select that option
[15:30] <zumbrunn> let me check...
[15:31] <zumbrunn> yeah, if I select that, the DEL key no longer works
[15:32] <zumbrunn> forward delete still works
[15:32] <zumbrunn> backspace doesn't
[15:32] <zumbrunn> del key vs fn-del key on my keyboard :-)
[15:33] <zumbrunn> fn-del works, del doesn't
[15:44] <zumbrunn> for what it's worth...
[15:44] <zumbrunn> this is the setting we are talking about...
[15:44] <zumbrunn> http://screencast.com/t/YWE4OTZhNWQt
[15:54] <hannesw> zumbrunn thanks!
